Here is a second piece of feedback that I also received on the voicemail feedback hotline…
Rick: Hi, Mark. This is Rick Caine calling. I just wanted to say hi and also wanted to thank you for having Andrew Hansen on your podcast at the beginning of February. Without him being on the podcast I would not have known about his Forever Affiliate course, which just came out last week. I purchased it and just going through the first portion of that course is phenomenal. Like I said, without the information that you had on that podcast I would not have learning about it. Thanks and keep up the good work. Bye.
So I’m going to be following along with these guys. Andrew has a coaching side to the program, I’m going to be involved in that. If you’re still interested in that and weren’t able to get in, Andrew has a few slots left. It’s very close to sold out, but feel free to drop a ticket over at the support desk, Suport.LateNightIM.com, and I’ll see if I can squeeze you in there.
It’s really going to be a rocking time. I’m hoping to build 10 new sites in the next six weeks and I’m going to let you know how that goes. It’s a six week coaching course behind Forever Affiliate there. It should be very interesting.
I have to tell you about this last thing. I got this awesome ticket the other day from a guy named Mike Silverman. He’s the Managing Director over at Silver Web Solutions and he sent this music video that they made on internet market. Here’s a clip…
I don’t get many internet marketing music videos, so I thought that was super cool.
He didn’t really ask for anything, he just said, “Hey, I thought you might enjoy this.” Of course my immediate reaction, “I have to play a little bit of this on the show.” I ended up of course mentioning Mike and he’ll get a backlink in the show notes and so forth.
That’s a really good example for you guys to follow. Not only is that cool content – Thanks a lot, Mike, I appreciate you sending that in – but if you need content, I’m looking for stuff to talk about in general. This is a general situation that people who create find themselves in.
If you send me stuff, I might use it. And if I use it, I might mention you on the show and create a backlink or whatever. The lesson is if there are other people in your niche who are doing the kind of stuff that you’re doing, reach out to them, help them out.
“Get what you want in life by getting other people what they want.” That will come back to you several fold. In this case, it’s good SEO technique by Mike, but in your case it might be something else. Just help people out and you’ll like the results.
Getting Back to WordPress Plugins
Enough fun and games, now it’s time to get down to the serious business of WordPress plugins. On episode 47 we had Dustin Hartzler, personal friend of mine from YourWebsiteEngineer.com. Dustin is the real deal, he’s a guy who makes his living working on WordPress. He’s talking about not only the plugins that he loves, but how he goes about selecting plugins when he’s looking for new plugins – we got all of that in episode 47.
He’s going to continue here with the second part of the interview where he’s going to tell us about some other plugins that he loves and can really make your website better, take your whole game to the next level. Let’s hear what Dustin has to say…
Part Two Plugins Interview with Dustin Hartzler of YourWebsiteEngineer.com
Dustin: Something else that we a lot of people want to do to keep their websites moving quickly is to install a caching plugin. Caching is the ability to serve up content such as your website in a static form so you do not have to use your database every time. It’s a little confusing to talk about but it is one of the best things you can do to speed up your website. Whether you are using a shared hosting account, a premium hosting account or any other type, caching is going to help.
There are two that are primarily used out there. One of W3 Total Cache and the other is WP Super Cache. I have never used WP Super Cache for anything but I do use W3 Total Cache. It’s a little confusing to go in and set up but once you get into the menu area and the performance area, you can go and really tweak and change a lot of things.
They have settings and ability to cache your database. You can do browser caching and add a content delivery network. You have support that you can go in and ask questions for. I think it also has the ability to import and export settings so if you know someone really smart who set it up and knows what they’re doing, you can ask them for their settings and then you can import them.
That is probably another big bang for your buck plugin that you can add to your websites to increase the overall performance.
Mark: I agree with everything that you said, particularly about the part about it being pretty confusing to set up. I think that W3 Total Cash is hands down the best caching program out there. Caching is absolutely critical especially now that Google considers page load speed in the website rankings. I think this is the right plugin.
You can pay the W3 Total Cache guys to set that plugin up for you but they are not cheap.
Dustin: I’m looking here and for less than 15 minute email support response, it’s $75 USD. Professional plugin configuration starts at $100. Theme performance and optimization starts at $150. They have the ability to do what you want but it could get kind of pricey.
Mark: I think that in a full configuration they go in, tweak the theme, do the initial configuration and then a CDN implementation which we won’t talk about here because it is beyond the scope of this course. It ends up running about $400 but when they are done, your website is fast.
Dustin: Right. They know what they’re doing. I have found that most of the time, you can do a Google search for W3 Total Cache settings or configuration and there are a lot of WordPress people out there who have said, “These are the settings, this is exactly how you do it. so just follow these steps”. Most of the time, you will get pretty good results that way. You probably won’t get the perfect results because you are following someone else’s steps but you are going to get much better than not having it plugged in and turned on yourself.
Mark: I completely agree. Okay, great. Caching is critical, then what?
Dustin: Then I am going to do a stats plugin. The reason we do this is because when we first get started, or when we have been doing this for years, we get hooked on the numbers. We want to see who is coming to our sites.
There are a couple of different ones that you can use. I am big fan of using Google Analytics. You can go in and add the code directly to your theme if you know what you’re doing but the best plugin out there that I have found is called Google Analyticator. It’s a free one that you can go and look at. It’s got screenshots on its page so you can see what it looks like before you download and install it.
It basically puts all of your Google Analytics right there on a summary page within WordPress. That way you don’t have to go out to Google Analytics to check it out. You can go to Google to get more information but if you are just interested in how many views you have and how many people are coming to your site, you can do that all within WordPress. That is one tool that I really like.
The other one is called Jetpack. It is a plugin that is made by WordPress.com, the people who write and created WordPress. It doesn’t do as good of a job in terms of showing you all of the analytics but it is built in. You can use it within WordPress and it does tell you how many all time views you have and how many views there are during the day.
You can look at different things and you can export content and share that information. One of the two will work. The only thing is that with Jetpack, you have to be registered with WordPress.com. That is different than your self-posted WordPress.org site. It’s confusing but it’s a free account so it is no big deal and you can set it up. Jetpack also has 12 different modules and plugins that you can use as part of that too.
Mark: Jetpack is pretty cool. I use that and Google Analytics but I find myself using Jetpack because it is so simple and straightforward. Most of the time, I don’t really want to dig into the data. I am just looking to make sure that the site is still running and that everything is okay. I like both of those.
If you really want to dig into Google Analytics and get a lot of detail pumped into Google Analytics so that you can see it, Yoast also has a Google Analytics plugin. It is really nice because it augments the data that WordPress sends into Google Analytics. That is one to check out too.
Dustin: Awesome. One other feature that I really like with the Jetpack plugin is that you can have an easy, “Subscribe to my blog via email” option. As soon as you publish a new post, it will automatically email everyone that signed up for that newsletter through the Jetpack plugin.
You don’t have to have MailChimp, AWeber or anything like that set up. You can have an email address field on your side bar so that people can sign up for updates and then it automatically goes out. I really like that feature in Jetpack as well.
Mark: That’s a loaded plugin. People should look at that because there are a ton of different features in there. Some of them are really cool. They keep adding stuff to it and I really like that approach. Jetpack is a fun one to play with.
Dustin: For sure.
The big six categories are backup, security, spam, SEO, caching and stats. I normally install at least one plugin from each of those categories right off the bat. Those are always the ones to get going right away, especially the stats. You want stats as soon as you can. You don’t want to be three months into a project and then forget that you didn’t have them going and have a situation where you want to see if a campaign or something works. That’s always one that you want to get going right away.
Now it just really depends on what you’re looking for. Another one that I really like to do once you have pumped out some content and you are creating good content online is to add a related posts plugin. There is one called nrelate Related Content and another called nrelate Most Popular. These are made by the same company as you can tell, nrelate.
One just gives you related content. It goes off the different categories, tags or some of the keywords within the tags. It goes through and displays content that is very similar in nature. A lot of people will stumble upon your website and a certain article. They might automatically leave but if you have a blog post that is very similar that they see in the footer when they are done reading, they might very easily click on it and go to the next page. Then they are reading that one and then the next one.
It helps to draw people in. It says, “Hey, you should stay for more content. Let’s see what else is available on the site.”
The other one that I mentioned is nrelate Most Popular post. It does the exact same thing except instead of doing related ones, it will automatically show the most popular posts. You can display these before or after each post. You can use a shortcode and pop them right into the middle of your post. You can using the widget and put them on the side bar.
There are lots of ways that you can display these things but it is all about continuing to give the people who are coming to your site opportunities to click on more links and stay on your website longer. No matter what your goal is, whether you are trying to sell them a product or gain their trust, the longer they are on your site consuming your content, the more trust you will build up with them.
Mark: It’s all about engagement, right? I like those plugins as well. That’s a great suggestion.
Dustin: The next one that we’ll talk about is a redirection plugin. I am going to call it a redirect plugin. There is actually one called Redirection and the other one is called Pretty Link Lite. This is one of my favorites that I like to install, especially since I have a podcast. I know that a lot of podcasters use this one. It gives you the ability to create your own custom shortcodes for whatever you want in the world.
One of the popular things that a lot of podcasters do is this. Often, the podcast will have a big long title but to go to the show notes, they might say “Go to YourWebsiteEngineer.com/number-71 or session-5”. You can come up with a shortcode that is very simple to say audibly and is easy for people to find.
Another reason to do this is if you are using the same link over and over again. One example is an affiliate link. I could say, “Go to my Blue Host affiliate link, YourWebsiteEngineer.com/Bluehost”. It just makes it very simple. If someone has an email question or I have to post on Twitter really quickly, I don’t have to go out and look to see what my affiliate link is. It keeps the whole branding thing together and it is a really neat way to do that.
You can install a bookmarklet from Pretty Link that you can put right on your bookmark bar. You can automatically click that on any page that you are on and it will create a short link for you so you can share it on Twitter or Facebook. You can continue to share those links with YourDomainName/something. It will generate numbers and letters or you can name it whatever you want and it will save it forever.
Then you can go and look at advanced stats. One of the big things I love about this is that I can say, “Sign up for my next webinar”. I can see that 300 people clicked on the link and 75 people signed up. There is some discrepancy there so I can look at what I did wrong on my sales page or my webinar page and see why I didn’t convert all of those numbers. It’s a really neat way to track those things as well.
You can see how many people are actually clicking or using your affiliate link and then see how many actually convert. You can see where the discrepancy is and look at ways to do a better job at turning the people who clicked into customers or people who have purchased your affiliate products.
Mark: It’s one of my favorite plugins but I did not know about the bookmarklet. I am going to have to check that out. I would get a lot of use out of that. I do that manually right now so you have probably just added years to my life.
Dustin: That’s what I’m here for.
Mark: Awesome. Another reason to use a plugin like that is that sometimes, especially with affiliate offers, the link that you need to send people to at the affiliate website can change.
A year from now, Blue Host might change something in the backend of their affiliate program and break all your links. If you’ve got your Blue Host links spread out all over your website and content all over the web, you can’t ever go and change all those.
If it’s in one place inside of Pretty Links, you can just change it in that one place and it will instantly be changed everywhere you used it. This way you can retain control over those links.
Dustin: Exactly. It makes it very simple to change those out. If you don’t have an affiliate link yet but you are in that process and you have just discovered a new tool that you are really excited about, you can set up your link and start directing people to it. Then when you finally get your affiliate link working, you can put your affiliate link in instead of the regular domain or whatever you might be using.
There is lots of flexibility and lots of things that you can do with that. You can set it up so that Google can’t track those if you want that. There are many features inside Pretty Link Lite and that is a free plugin as well. Redirection is a free plugin as well. I have never used it but it was another one out there that I found that does exactly the same thing.
It’s called a 301 redirect and it just uses a file on your server to redirect people and take them somewhere else when they come to that short URL.
Mark: Right, awesome. That’s a good one.
Dustin: The next one that I think would be valuable to talk about is a tossup because there are a lot of people in different courts in terms of who likes to do what. The next one I would like to talk about is comments and the commenting system. There are a couple of big name plugins that are out there, Livefyre and Disqus. A lot of people might say “DISC-us” because that is what it looks like from the spelling, but it is called Disqus, sounds like discuss.
Those are third party clients that do a good job of interfacing, making it easy for people to sign in. They can use their Facebook, Twitter accounts or other things like that to log in and make comments on your site.
I use Livefyre on my website. It gives me the ability to log in and I can approve and disapprove comments within their user interface. It updates in real time so if I am answering a comment for someone on my site and someone else pops in and leaves a comment, it will give me a notification in that window. It might say that someone has left a link. I you can go and edit that or continue that dialogue right there. You can almost use that as a live chat type thing so that is kind of cool. Disqus has a lot of the same features.
I also really like using the commenting system built into WordPress. All of the plugins I just discussed, Livefyre, Disqus and the WordPress one that is built in all save your comments within your WordPress database. If you ever want to move from one to another, you don’t have to move your comments around and import or export them.
It is always stored in your WordPress database. I like using the built in WordPress one because you can style that to look just like the rest of your website. I think that Disqus gives you a little bit more flexibility but it is very difficult to make that kind of fit with your perfect theme with Livefyre.
All of them are great, all of them are good. You can take this with a grain of salt if you like but the one thing that I do recommend is turning off the moderation within WordPress. That way, people will automatically see their comment when they make a comment. There is nothing more disheartening than trying to leave a comment to add to a discussion and seeing, “This comment must be moderated before it is approved” or something like that.
I always turn the moderation off. Akismet or Antispam Bee will get rid of any generic or spam comments that might flood your site. You might have to delete some later but for the most part, I have never had a problem with people leaving vulgar or disheartening comments. That is one recommendation when it comes to the comment system.
Mark: I think Akismset is really good at capturing profane comments. I think the only ones that get through are the sneaky ones where someone is just commenting for a back link. I don’t get too many of those either. I completely agree with you in that it is the worst feeling in the world to submit the comment that you have just spent five minutes trying to write and having it say that it is being held for moderation. I don’t like that.
Dustin: It’s a complete pain. This next one is a premium plugin. I forget how much it costs off the top of my head. It might be $39 for one website. I bought the developer license because I use it on pretty much every website I use. It is called Gravity Forms but there is also one called Contact Form 7 that is free.
I want to talk about Gravity Forms because you can create these forms on your website which are amazing. You get a lot of flexibility with both of these systems in developing a form. Back in the day, when you used to develop the form, it took ten hours to lay out what the form looked like. Then you had to make sure that when someone hit submit, all of the required fields are filled in. Then it sends a confirmation message. You don’t have to do any of that anymore. Gravity Forms and Contact Form 7 give you the ability to generate a form and put it on your website.
You might be wondering why you might want a form on your website. I use these for hundreds of different things. I have a contact form for when someone wants to get in touch with me. It says “Work with us now” or “Work with us today”. If someone needs to contact me to start a project for a website, I tell them to fill out a form with the ten questions that I am going to ask them anyway.
Having them fill out the form is the first step in the right direction in terms of seeing if they have the right budget and timeline and what they are looking for. You can build a form like that.
You can build a simple survey. You can survey your audience and say that you are giving something free to one person who fills out the survey. You can ask them questions like “What is your favorite thing that I’ve been doing?” You can ask if they want podcasting videos. You come up with these surveys you can use.
I have one when it comes to testimonials. If someone wants to give me a testimonial for my services, I send them to fill something out. It just gives them an area to fill out so that they don’t have to think about it from scratch. You can put some examples in there and ask what their favorite thing about working with you was or what they think you can improve for next time. You can ask if they would refer you to friends or anything like that.
There are hundreds of things that you can use forms for and it’s just a great way to capture data. You can get to know a little bit more about your audience. I really love both of those. Like I said Gravity Forms is a little bit of an expense.
You can also tie Gravity Forms in with PayPal if you wanted to have some sort of form where you were receiving payments, perhaps for a premium site or premium things like that. It will also link to MailChimp, which is really cool. You can put up a form that is custom made for some event that you are coming up with.
Maybe you are putting on a tradeshow and you need four pieces of information. You can save that within WordPress but you can also send it over to MailChimp. When it’s in MailChimp, you can send out an email blast to everyone who signed up to get information from it.
It is a really cool plugin. At least to me, it is worth the $39 or whatever it is because it saves you so much time and effort when putting together these great looking forms. You get a lot of value out of them.
Mark: I am looking at your contact form. I know that is one of the simpler ones that you’ve done with that and it looks fantastic. I agree with you. I like that plugin and it is worth the money that it costs.
Dustin: One other thing is that it has conditional formatting. If you had a checkbox that asks whether they prefer to be contacted by email or snail-mail, it will pull out the next piece of the form depending on what box the check so that they don’t have to fill out both sections. If you have “Send to billing address”, you can check one box to indicate that the billing and shipping addresses are the same.
There is lots of flexibility so it is really cool.
Mark: You can get some Ajax-y looking stuff going with that. I do like that plugin, it’s a good one.
Dustin: There is a plugin called Broken Link Checker that you can find in the WordPress repository. That will basically go through and scan all of your posts, pages and comments for any links, images or redirects that don’t work. Maybe some of your images got deleted on your server or something along those lines. I will email you via email or will display a result on your dashboard that indicates there’s a problem.
That one is really cool and it’s really a good thing because Google doesn’t like serving up websites that have broken links or don’t have images that are being resolved where you would just see little blank “X”s. This is a good one to run. I think that once you put it on your site, it runs all the time or once a day. In the settings, you can choose how often you want it to run. That way you will be automatically when something goes wrong or is broken. If your site goes down, it could probably tell you that as well.
Mark: That thing is awesome. I use it because what I found after five years of blogging is that people who left comments three or four years ago included websites which might be gone now. I had all kinds of broken links from posts and comments that were made years ago. At the time that I made the post, those were valid links but now those websites are gone and the products don’t exist anymore. You are absolutely right that Google does not like that and it will impact your search engine rankings. This is the plugin for that.
Dustin: Yes. There’s another one that I discovered today, no joke. It blew my mind because I had been looking for a plugin like it for the longest time. You might laugh at the name but it is called What Would Seth Godin Do. At first you think, “This is really a plugin? Seriously?” It displays a custom welcome message to new visitors and another message to returning visitors.
A quote that Seth Godin said at one point in one of his blog posts is, “One opportunity that’s underused is the idea of using cookies to treat returning visitors differently than newbies. It’s more work at first, but it can offer two experiences to two different sorts of people.”
It can tell whether someone has been to your website or not and then you can set up how many times each message happens. Maybe for the first five times you can say “Welcome to my site. You might want to subscribe to my newsletter my RSS feed,” or “Hey, check me out in iTunes.” It could be anything like that.
Then after the five visits are over, you can display a different message like “Thanks so much for coming back to my site. Here is this.” You can do anything like that. I see so much value in that. I am just trying to figure out how I can tie that in to make sure that people who have been to my site have signed up for my newsletter. If they have been on my newsletter, I want to say, “Thanks for signing up for my newsletter” and make them feel more special and more at home. I haven’t figure out how to do that quite yet but this is the next best thing.
New people get a welcome message. I haven’t implemented this on my own site yet because I just found it today but I think it’s genius.
Mark: I agree. In fact, I would flip that and say that if they have come a fifth time and not yet signed up, I might want to get in their face a little bit and say, “Hey, why haven’t you signed up to the newsletter yet?” That’s a neat idea.
Dustin: I don’t have one right off the top of my head for pop-ups but it goes along the same lines in terms of trying to get someone signed up for your newsletter. I personally hate pop-ups that do that sort of thing. You’ve been on the site for 2.4 seconds and then something pops up that says, “Hey, sign up for my list.” I just came to you from a Google search. I want to read your content. I don’t want to sign up for your list until I see if your content is valuable.
There is a handful of those that you can use but I always recommend that when you use the settings, set it up so that it pops up after a minute. If someone has been on your site for a minute, they might be interested enough in actually signing up. I think you can also set some of them up to pop up only after they have been on three different pages on your site.
Don’t make it an automatic thing. It’s the most annoying thing, especially when you are on your phone or a small device. All of a sudden, your whole screen is taken over and you can’t get to the “X”. At that point I’m not even paying attention to what you’re doing on your site. That is a word of wisdom from me because I don’t like those types of plugins.
Mark: I can’t stand those. I used to have one back in the day and I got rid of it too for the same reason. I hate it myself and I don’t want to put people through those things.
This is developing into quite a list, man. This is going to give people a lot of work to do on their sites. I really appreciate your time tonight.
If people want to learn more about plugins, I know that you have some of this documented in an excellent eBook. Why don’t you tell people a little bit about the eBook, how they can find you and about your podcast again and where that is. Where do they come if they need WordPress help?
Dustin: YourWebsiteEngineer.com is the place for WordPress information. It is my one stop shop if you will. I just give away as much information as I can. I love to share what is going on with WordPress because honestly, I would rather have one million awesome websites created by everyone out there listening than one million horrible websites that I have to browse through to find information. That is my own personal goal, to make the web awesome.
The podcast comes out once a week and I do have a free eBook that you will get if you sign up for my newsletter list. It’s the top ten plugins, a lot of which we covered here. It’s actually got 13 because I couldn’t contain them all in ten. I am doing a revision on it and I think I am going to do the most beneficial 50 or 75 plugins. There are so many plugins out there that are so awesome.
When I do a revision of the eBook, I always send it out for newsletters subscriber so you always get the most recent ones. Don’t feel that you have to wait until that new book is out to sign up. I will always send that out to the community of people who have signed up.
That’s a little bit about me. You can find me on Twitter at @dhartzler10. I love talking to people on there. If you have a question or anything related to WordPress, I am glad to help out and I answer every single email that comes into my inbox. If I can’t do it or figure it out, I will try to figure it out and at least give you some sort of solution.
Mark: And of course you have the podcast. You have recently been hitting some big topics like CDNs and how to work through theme and plugin conflicts and so forth. I love the podcast. There is a ton of information there and of course, I am a little bit partial to podcasting as you know. I definitely recommend that people pop over to iTunes and check that out and leave you a review if you like it.
Dustin: Definitely. If you have a question too, I love answering questions on the podcast. If you ask a question that I feel is going to benefit more people than just you, I will answer your question but I will also do it on a podcast to go more in depth. I love that interaction and getting brand new ideas for episodes. There is so much to cover. There are so many things that we didn’t even talk about tonight that we could have gone on and on about.
Go over and check it out. I am in iTunes. Search for WordPress and it is one of the first ones you’ll find. I’ve got a yellow hat as my logo and so that is easy to find.
Mark: I wanted to ask you about the yellow hat. Do you actually have a yellow hardhat with the WordPress logo on it?
Dustin: No, but it’s a funny story. When I was in college, I had a plastic hardhat that looked just like it. It was because I was in residence life and one summer we were doing a big renovation project. As a joke, they passed out all of these plastic helmets to the staff members. About two years after college, I asked myself “Will I ever need something like this?” I pitched it because I thought, “No, why would I ever use that?”
To this day, I don’t have it but I could use in so many different applications for so many different things. I should have saved it but now I don’t have it. It’s a bummer but I have looked on Amazon and I could purchase a handful of these plastic things for $5. I might do that someday and keep it as my branding.
I’m an engineer by training so that’s where the name Your Website Engineer came from.
Mark: Ah, yes. I see. What is your engineering discipline?
Dustin: I am an electrical engineer and I have computer science minor. When I was getting my minor, it triggered this whole programming thing. I got really excited and passionate about that. Then I couldn’t stand being in the corporate world anymore and so I started my own gig which I have been doing for two and a half years now.
Mark: Excellent. I am an electrical engineer too so we are kindred spirits in that way. I really appreciate your time tonight.
Dustin, I do have a question for you. I am looking at your website, which I mentioned is absolutely gorgeous. I am seeing this thing down here at the bottom where you have your latest tweets in the footer. You didn’t mention social media integration plugins, which is something that we could probably spend a whole show talking about.
How are you doing this latest tweets thing?
Dustin: That is actually a plugin that I have kind of written myself. With some new Twitter standards, you can’t go out and encode Twitter content every single time. It’s got a little caching in it. It’s a neat plugin but I think I need some people to help me test it. I am willing to let your audience take a stab at it. I’ll send you the plugin so that you can have it as part of this episode and in the show notes.
There are only three features that you can actually control inside of it. There’s how many tweets it displays and your username. Maybe that is even it. I would love some feedback. It is something that is not out there in the WordPress repository but as a developer and a geeky guy, I wanted to create something that was my own.
That is what that is all about. It’s a cool little side project that I have been doing. It has been sitting on my computer for a couple of weeks now and I really need to get it out there and start getting some feedback so that I can make it a real thing. If you’re interested, go ahead and check out the show notes and it should be there to download today.
Mark: That sounds great. Send it to me and I will have my VA implement that on my website because I have been messing with my footer. Talking about how to do a good footer is a whole other show because a lot of people spend time down at the bottom of your website.
I really like this idea. It looks great on your site so please send it to me. We’ll hook it up and see what it looks like.
I really appreciate your time tonight. Thank you very much and I hope that I can get you back on the show again and we can talk WordPress some more.
Dustin: Definitely. There are more things that we can talk about other than plugins. I would love to be a returning guest.
Mark: Thanks, Dustin. I really appreciate it and we’ll talk to you soon.
Dustin: Sounds good. Thanks, Mark.
Mark: Thanks. Bye.